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imported_Nothingman
04-28-2010, 09:25 PM
http://static.boxrec.com/wiki/9/91/Felixtrinidad.jpg

Felix "Tito" Trinidad

IBF welterweight champion
WBC welterweight champion
WBA light middleweight champion
IBF light middleweight champion
WBA middleweight champion

The Ring Fighter of the Year 2000

Facts:
-Became the youngest welterweight champion in history at 20 years in '93
-After Henry Armstrong, most title defenses as a welterweight champion (15)
-Got the MD win over Oscar De La Hoya in '99, thus becoming the first man to beat the future HOFer and ATG
-Became 2-division champion when he beat David Reid by UD in 2000 and became the unified champion beating Fernando Vargas same year to take his IBF belt
-Became 3-division champion by beating WBA MW champ William Joppy by TKO5 in 2001. Lost the title to Bernard Hopkins same year by TKO12
-Retired in 2002, returned in 2004 stopping Ricardo Mayorga after 8 rounds
-Lost to Winky Wright in 2005 and retired again
-Came back again (for the last time?) in 2008 to fight Roy Jones and lost on points

Notable wins:
Oscar De La Hoya *highly controversial
Pernell Whitaker *past prime
Fernando Vargas
William Joppy
Maurice Blocker
Hector Camacho *past prime
David Reid
Hugo Pineda
Oba Carr
Freddie Pendleton
Luis Ramon Campas
Luis Gabriel Garcia
Ricardo Mayorga
Rodney Moore
Troy Waters
Mamadou Thiam

Notable losses:
Bernard Hopkins
Winky Wright
Roy Jones *past prime


Overall points score:

'A' level wins:
Oscar De La Hoya
'A-' level wins:
Fernando Vargas, William Joppy, David Reid, Oba Carr
'B' level wins:
Pernell Whitaker, Hector Camacho, Hugo Pineda, Maurice Blocker, Luis Ramon Campas, Luis Gabriel Garcia, Ricardo Mayorga, Mamadou Thiam
'B-' level wins:
Troy Waters, Rodney Moore, Freddie Pendleton

Points score: 2+6+8+1.5-7=10.5

Obama
04-28-2010, 10:45 PM
Already did a resume eval on Trinidad, we're using mine. Yours is pretty bad. You also don't seem to understand the "half credit" system.

Notable Wins:
Jake Rodriguez
Alberto de las Mercedes Cortes
Maurice Blocker
Hector Camacho <Post-Prime>
Luis Ramon Campas <Undefeated>
Oba Carr <Undefeated>
Freddie Pendleton <Post-Prime>
Pernell Whitaker <Over the hill>
Oscar De La Hoya <Undefeated>
David Reid <Undefeated>
Fernando Vargas <Undefeated>
William Joppy
Ricardo Mayorga
Notable Losses:
Bernard Hopkins
Winky Wright <Tito Post-Prime>
Questionable Wins:
Oscar De La Hoya

'A' level wins:
Oscar De La Hoya, Fernando Vargas
'A-' level wins:
Hector Camacho, Oba Carr, Pernell Whitaker, David Reid
'B' level wins:
Maurice Blocker, Luis Ramon Campas, Freddie Pendleton, William Joppy, Ricardo Mayorga
'B-' level wins:
Jake Rodriguez, Alberto de las Mercedes Cortes

Point Total: 4 + 6 + 5 + 1 – 5 = 11

imported_Nothingman
04-29-2010, 09:23 AM
Already did a resume eval on Trinidad, we're using mine. Yours is pretty bad. You also don't seem to understand the "half credit" system.

Notable Wins:
Jake Rodriguez
Alberto de las Mercedes Cortes
Maurice Blocker
Hector Camacho <Post-Prime>
Luis Ramon Campas <Undefeated>
Oba Carr <Undefeated>
Freddie Pendleton <Post-Prime>
Pernell Whitaker <Over the hill>
Oscar De La Hoya <Undefeated>
David Reid <Undefeated>
Fernando Vargas <Undefeated>
William Joppy
Ricardo Mayorga
Notable Losses:
Bernard Hopkins
Winky Wright <Tito Post-Prime>
Questionable Wins:
Oscar De La Hoya

'A' level wins:
Oscar De La Hoya, Fernando Vargas
'A-' level wins:
Hector Camacho, Oba Carr, Pernell Whitaker, David Reid
'B' level wins:
Maurice Blocker, Luis Ramon Campas, Freddie Pendleton, William Joppy, Ricardo Mayorga
'B-' level wins:
Jake Rodriguez, Alberto de las Mercedes Cortes

Point Total: 4 + 6 + 5 + 1 – 5 = 11
So you rate Whitaker as A- in '99?? :-??That was a surprise. I think, altho he showed flashes of his old self in some parts of the fight, he was FAR from his old self. Despite what Oscar-haters say, Oscar beat a better version of Sweet Pea. And Pendleton was obviously past it. I think rating Joppy A- is FULLY justified. The man was a 3-time champ for crying out loud! He went 12 rounds with a bigger Hopkins. Vargas was A-, the fact that he was stopped by Tito and Oscar proves that. He was very good, but not great. He did a good job but as Merchant said, he chewed over more than he could swallow. Perhaps, just PERHAPS, he could be classified as a weak A.

And please O, enlighten me on your famous half-credit system.:rolleyes: Trinidad didn't win the fight, but got the decision. That in my eyes shouldn't count as a REAL win.

Obama
04-29-2010, 10:24 AM
So you rate Whitaker as A- in '99?? :-??That was a surprise. I think, altho he showed flashes of his old self in some parts of the fight, he was FAR from his old self. Despite what Oscar-haters say, Oscar beat a better version of Sweet Pea. And Pendleton was obviously past it. I think rating Joppy A- is FULLY justified. The man was a 3-time champ for crying out loud! He went 12 rounds with a bigger Hopkins. Vargas was A-, the fact that he was stopped by Tito and Oscar proves that. He was very good, but not great. He did a good job but as Merchant said, he chewed over more than he could swallow. Perhaps, just PERHAPS, he could be classified as a weak A.

And please O, enlighten me on your famous half-credit system.:rolleyes: Trinidad didn't win the fight, but got the decision. That in my eyes shouldn't count as a REAL win.

1) Whitaker was an A+ fighter in his prime. DLH beat an A Whitaker. Tito beat an A- Whitaker.

2) Pendleton was past it, I wrote that. Prime Pendleton is A-.

3) Rating Joppy A- isn't justified at all. He has no win to indicate he was A-. Rating has to reflect resume.

4) Vargas beat prime versions of Quartey and Winky, two top 10 p4p fighters at different times. His win over Quartey is the second most convincing win anyone has over him, damn sure better than Oscar's performance. Of course he's A. He was destroyed by Trinidad because Trinidad was an A+ 154 lb boxer puncher, which emphasis on the puncher.

5) Half credit is for NCs, not actual wins/losses. Doesn't matter if you agree with the decision or not, you rate the resume as it is. Just make a note in the questionable wins department.

imported_Nothingman
04-29-2010, 11:33 AM
1) Whitaker was an A+ fighter in his prime. DLH beat an A Whitaker. Tito beat an A- Whitaker.

2) Pendleton was past it, I wrote that. Prime Pendleton is A-.

3) Rating Joppy A- isn't justified at all. He has no win to indicate he was A-. Rating has to reflect resume.

4) Vargas beat prime versions of Quartey and Winky, two top 10 p4p fighters at different times. His win over Quartey is the second most convincing win anyone has over him, damn sure better than Oscar's performance. Of course he's A. He was destroyed by Trinidad because Trinidad was an A+ 154 lb boxer puncher, which emphasis on the puncher.

5) Half credit is for NCs, not actual wins/losses. Doesn't matter if you agree with the decision or not, you rate the resume as it is. Just make a note in the questionable wins department.
He beat Duran...even if Duran was old and overmatched in size, he still is Duran. By stopping him in the third, Joppy showed that he was class. Nobody else except Hearns stopped Duran in the early rounds. Joppy also beat Howard Eastman, Julio Cesar Green, Shinji Takehara and Hacine Cherifi (who beat Keith Holmes to win the WBC title). Rumours have it that Trinidad wore those illegal wraps during the Joppy fight and it's quite likely, as Joppy had never been hurt that bad or stopped before and Trinidad had just moved up from lmw.

But we've already been thru this and I fear my arguments won't help to convince you this time either.

Obama
04-29-2010, 05:35 PM
He beat Duran...even if Duran was old and overmatched in size, he still is Duran. By stopping him in the third, Joppy showed that he was class. Nobody else except Hearns stopped Duran in the early rounds. Joppy also beat Howard Eastman, Julio Cesar Green, Shinji Takehara and Hacine Cherifi (who beat Keith Holmes to win the WBC title). Rumours have it that Trinidad wore those illegal wraps during the Joppy fight and it's quite likely, as Joppy had never been hurt that bad or stopped before and Trinidad had just moved up from lmw.

But we've already been thru this and I fear my arguments won't help to convince you this time either.

Nobody you listed was any better than a B fighter, and Duran was B- at that point at BEST. Eastman was prolly the best guy, and Joppy barely beat him. Green also beat Joppy the first time. Both those guys dropped Joppy, so it's not like Tito even needed to cheat to blow his ass out.

imported_Nothingman
04-30-2010, 10:56 AM
Nobody you listed was any better than a B fighter, and Duran was B- at that point at BEST. Eastman was prolly the best guy, and Joppy barely beat him. Green also beat Joppy the first time. Both those guys dropped Joppy, so it's not like Tito even needed to cheat to blow his ass out.
Oh, I think he did! And how. Joppy was known for having a good chin and was naturally strong, a full fledged middleweight. SO WHAT if he got dropped a couple times, Tito got dropped countless times! Joppy's problem was that there were too few A or A- fighters at the time in the division. He beat all the best guys available save for Hopkins and Trinidad.

Obama
04-30-2010, 11:05 AM
Oh, I think he did! And how. Joppy was known for having a good chin and was naturally strong, a full fledged middleweight. SO WHAT if he got dropped a couple times, Tito got dropped countless times! Joppy's problem was that there were too few A or A- fighters at the time in the division. He beat all the best guys available save for Hopkins and Trinidad.

And Taylor and Winky....

Also, Tito got dropped plenty of times but no one claims he had a good chin. So why cite him? Joppy doesn't have a good chin either. That's why B-Hop bet him 50k he'd knock him out.

...And yes, I realize B-Hop lost that bet. It's more of a reflection of him than Joppy. B-hop couldn't KO RJJ either....

imported_Nothingman
04-30-2010, 11:41 AM
And Taylor and Winky....

Also, Tito got dropped plenty of times but no one claims he had a good chin. So why cite him? Joppy doesn't have a good chin either. That's why B-Hop bet him 50k he'd knock him out.

...And yes, I realize B-Hop lost that bet. It's more of a reflection of him than Joppy. B-hop couldn't KO RJJ either....
Joppy was crap when he fought Taylor. Dunno what it was, but he was clearly not himself. It was not long before he would jump the division and move to 168. Guess he had become too slow for 160.

Dj Si Thompson
05-02-2010, 07:46 PM
So you rate Whitaker as A- in '99?? :-??That was a surprise. I think, altho he showed flashes of his old self in some parts of the fight, he was FAR from his old self. Despite what Oscar-haters say, Oscar beat a better version of Sweet Pea. And Pendleton was obviously past it. I think rating Joppy A- is FULLY justified. The man was a 3-time champ for crying out loud! He went 12 rounds with a bigger Hopkins. Vargas was A-, the fact that he was stopped by Tito and Oscar proves that. He was very good, but not great. He did a good job but as Merchant said, he chewed over more than he could swallow. Perhaps, just PERHAPS, he could be classified as a weak A.

And please O, enlighten me on your famous half-credit system.:rolleyes: Trinidad didn't win the fight, but got the decision. That in my eyes shouldn't count as a REAL win.

If Whitaker kept to what he was doing in the first round he'd of won a decision against Trinidad. Who scored what for Dela hoya - Whitaker? I havn't ever scored the fight properly but knew Whitaker landed the cleaner shots.

Dela Hoya did a lot of missing that night too :))

imported_Nothingman
05-02-2010, 08:17 PM
If Whitaker kept to what he was doing in the first round he'd of won a decision against Trinidad. Who scored what for Dela hoya - Whitaker? I havn't ever scored the fight properly but knew Whitaker landed the cleaner shots.

Dela Hoya did a lot of missing that night too :))
I didn't see it that way. Oscar landed a lot of clean shots and we all know how hard that is against Whitaker! I just don't see how ANYONE can say Whitaker won that fight, 'cause it really wasn't very close at all.:-??

Obama
05-02-2010, 08:31 PM
I didn't see it that way. Oscar landed a lot of clean shots and we all know how hard that is against Whitaker! I just don't see how ANYONE can say Whitaker won that fight, 'cause it really wasn't very close at all.:-??

Yea you're on crack. Thinking DLH won is fine. thinking it wasn't close is absurd. Even if your card wasn't close, if you can't identify 4 swing rounds something is wrong with you.

Dj Si Thompson
05-02-2010, 08:45 PM
Yea you're on crack. Thinking DLH won is fine. thinking it wasn't close is absurd. Even if your card wasn't close, if you can't identify 4 swing rounds something is wrong with you.


I'm with you on this one Obama :)

imported_Nothingman
05-02-2010, 09:07 PM
Yea you're on crack. Thinking DLH won is fine. thinking it wasn't close is absurd. Even if your card wasn't close, if you can't identify 4 swing rounds something is wrong with you.
Hil-larious. All I got to say.:rolleyes: Ok, so Whitaker won 3 or maybe 4 rounds, so what? That's still not close. And that "knockdown", what a laugh!:)) Oscar practically stumbled and fell before his feet.

Obama
05-02-2010, 09:10 PM
The pt deduction for the unintentional head butt was an even worse call.

When you going to learn to stop scoring fights on sheer aggression?

Dj Si Thompson
05-02-2010, 09:21 PM
The pt deduction for the unintentional head butt was an even worse call.

When you going to learn to stop scoring fights on sheer aggression?


I don't take aggression into account as much as i do clean effective punching and ring generalship

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