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Obama
01-29-2010, 10:29 AM
Source (http://www.ringtv.com/blog/1572/floyd_mayweather_jr_vs_alltime_welterweight_greats/)

Part I....


Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. all-time welterweight greats

Posted Jan. 28, 2010 at 07:48pm
By Gavin Evans


http://images.ringtv.com/images/7/00/00/51/35/5135_586.jpg
Sugar Ray Robinson was as good or better than Floyd Mayweather Jr. in almost all departments but Mayweather's defensive skills would've kept him in the fight. Photo / THE RING


Floyd Mayweather Jr. was supposed to face future hall of famer Manny Pacquiao but that fight fell through because of a disagreement over drug testing. Now, Mayeather is negotiating to fight Shane Mosley, another of this era’s best fighters. We’ll see whether the talks lead to actual meeting in the ring.

While we wait, just for fun, let’s pit Mayweather against 10 of the top welterweights of all time in imaginary fights and speculate how he might’ve fared. Ask Mayweather where he ranks, and he’ll tell you, “Numero uno.” He’ll look back at the Sugar Rays and think, “No doubt, I could have beaten ‘em.” Put the same question to his army of media detractors, and they won’t even concede he’s the best of a bad bunch. For all his undoubted skills, they’ll say he runs scared of the danger men, and instead picks fights with little guys.

So where lies the truth? How would the 2010 version of “Money” Mayweather have fared against 10 of the best 147-pound division has had over the last century?

If we were to rank Mayweather on the basis of his welterweight record alone, he’d fall well short. He is 40-0 (25 knockouts) overall but at 147 or above he’s only 6-0. Sharmba Mitchell, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatto and Juan Manuel Marquez are solid enough, but we’d feel more comfortable if names like Mosley, Cotto, Margarito, and Williams were also on his resume.

This is about ability rather than record, though, so let’s be clear: We’re talking about Mayweather as he is now, against, say, Henry Armstrong as he was in 1938. Given all the advances in terms of diet, training and technique, we’ll make one allowance for the old-timers: These fights will take place under the rules as of then rather than now – 15 rounds, six-ounce gloves, same-day weigh-in (although this wouldn’t worry Mayweather, who makes 147-pounds with ease).

The next problem is to pick our Top 10. If we were to rate them solely on what they achieved at welterweight, we’d need to include men from the turn of the 19th century such as Tommy Ryan and Joe Walcott. But that would stack things too strongly in Floyd’s favor. Unless you’re of the Nat Fleischer school, which views the early champions as men of a higher order, you’d have to concede that Mayweather would have too much in his arsenal of skills for anyone from that era. Take a look at fights from the 1900s on YouTube.com to see what we mean.

Even keeping it to the last 100 years, there are greats we have to leave out – Jack Britton, Ted ‘Kid’ Lewis, Barney Ross, Jimmy McLarnin, Luis Rodriguez, Roberto Duran, Pernell Whitaker, Felix Trinidad and De La Hoya.

Still, the list we’ve picked will give Mayweather plenty to think about.

Note: The opinion of author Gavin Evans does not necessarily reflect that of the RingTV.com editors.


MAYWEATHER VS. SUGAR RAY ROBINSON

Credentials: Mayweather, who did most of his fighting at junior lightweight, can’t compare with Robinson when it comes to his welterweight record. Sugar Ray had his first 23 fights at or around lightweight, and after nine months as a professional, trounced reigning champion Sammy Angott. From 1941 to 1950, he was a welterweight who did most of his fighting against middleweights. For example, when he beat Jake LaMotta for the second time, in 1943, he gave away 16 pounds. He also beat welterweight champions Marto Servo (twice), Fritzie Zivic (twice) and Henry Armstrong, but it was only after 85 fights that Robinson got a title shot. He reigned for four years, making five defenses, one of them over future Hall of Famer Kid Gavilan, whom he also shaded in a non-title fight. When he finally left the welterweight division in 1950, his record stood at 110-1-2. Incidentally, the blemishes were against middleweights.
Physical Equipment: The 5-foot-11 Robinson would have a three-inch height advantage, but his reach of 72½ inches was only a half inch longer than Mayweather’s. Robinson began to experience weight troubles over the final two years of his welterweight reign, when his peak fighting weight was around 155 pounds (Mayweather steps into the ring at around 152).
Strengths and Weaknesses: Robinson was a beautifully balanced boxer-puncher, his footwork and hand-speed dazzling, his timing and accuracy impeccable, and he could fight at any range. He had chilling power in his left hook and right cross, the ability to end a fight at any moment with one punch, and the instinct never to let a man off the hook. Like Mayweather, he had a good chin – dropped five times prior to moving up, but only twice by welterweights. His defense was fundamentally sound, but he took far more punches than, say, Willie Pep or Mayweather. Watch films of Sugar Ray as a middleweight and you might be surprised how many punches he absorbed. He did not much like boxers with slick skills and top-class jabs (Tommy Bell and Gavilan gave him trouble). Mayweather is a defensive master – very difficult to tag cleanly, even up-close where his trick of raising his shoulder and twisting his body is highly effective. He would have a significant edge in defense, but the busier, harder hitting, more aggressive Robinson would have a big edge in offense.
Outcome: This would be a very tough fight for Robinson. Mayweather is extremely slippery and his punch placement is often perfect, so he would slip and land frequently. But Sugar Ray’s foot and hand speed would mean that his success rate would be far higher than that of any other Mayweather opponent. Over 15 rounds, Robinson’s aggression and work rate would secure him a close but unanimous decision.


MAYWEATHER VS. HENRY ARMSTRONG

Credentials: Armstrong moved up from featherweight in 1938. Weighing 133 pounds, fully clothed and fed, he mauled Barney Ross to win the world welterweight title. Over the next two years, he defended the welterweight title 18 times, while also winning the world lightweight title (meaning that he held three world titles at the same time). He was robbed in a bid for a version of the middleweight crown against Ceferino Garcia, who escaped with a draw. Armstrong lost the title to Fritzie Zivic, who also beat him in a rematch (though “Homicide Hank” won their third bout). The division was weak at the time, but Armstrong beat some good welterweights along the way, including Ross, Garcia, Zivic and Pedro Montanez.
Physical Equipment: “Money Mayweather” would have significant advantages, 2½ inches in height, 5 inches in reach, and 10 to 15 pounds in fighting weight, even with a same day weigh-in (Armstrong weighed at or under the lightweight limit for eight of his welterweight title fights).
Strengths and Weaknesses: Armstrong’s assets were immense: an unprecedented work rate, freakish physical strength for his size, and immense stamina that allowed him to maintain his non-stop, high-pressure, up-close style for 15 rounds. He also had the speed and skill to close down fleet-footed opponents, along with quick hands and reflexes, good head movement, and, in his prime, an impervious chin. He would swarm all over bigger men, battering their bodies and raking their heads with a non-stop tattoo of leather. In the lighter weights, he had impressive power (once scoring 27 knockouts in a row), but at welterweight most stoppages came through the accumulation of fast, solid punches (14 of his 18 challengers failed to last the distance). Negatives? He lost several bouts as a result of foul tactics (mainly low blows) and his all-night partying and heavy drinking contributed to an early decline. His style meant that he took a lot of punishment, particularly since he was fighting almost once a month as champion (23 fights in 26 months).
Outcome: Armstrong struggled with the precision and skill of Lou Ambers at lightweight (but deserved both decisions); Mayweather struggled with the pressure of Jose Luis Castillo at lightweight (but won both decisions). Armstrong’s speed, pressure, work rate and ability to cut off the ring would give Mayweather headaches, but Floyd is also a master in-fighter and, as he showed against Ricky Hatton, and has the strength and skill to defuse or tie-up relentless, close-quarter attacks. He couldn’t match Armstrong’s work rate, but he would land a far higher percentage of punches. In the end, Mayweather’s advantages in size and defensive skill would be decisive, and he would win a fairly close but clear decision.

Obama
01-29-2010, 10:30 AM
Part II....


MAYWEATHER VS. KID GAVILAN

Credentials: Gavilan was champion for 3½ years, during a hot spell for the welterweight division. He started as a 17-year-old featherweight in Cuba, and by the age of 20 had moved up to welterweight and migrated to New York. In 1948, aged 22 (with 53 fights to his name), he took on Ray Robinson in a non-title fight and gave him fits. Robinson won, but the crowd booed. Seven wins later he challenged Sugar Ray for the title, and again it was close, although this time Robinson clearly deserved it. Two years later, he trounced Johnny Bratton to become world champion. He won a controversial verdict over old rival Billy Graham in his first defense, but when they fought again, 14 months later, Gavilan won easily. Along the way he broke the unbeaten records of leading contenders Gil Turner and Chuck Davey, and in his fifth defense rose from a heavy knockdown to outpoint a peak Carmen Basilio. After a sixth defense, against old foe Johnny Bratton, he moved up to challenge Bobo Olson for the world middleweight title, and fighting with a broken hand, lost a majority decision. Gavilan finally lost the title on a dodgy verdict against the mob-backed Johnny Saxton, after which his form plummeted. He also beat several of the world’s leading middleweights.
Physical Equipment: At 5-foot-10½, Gavilan would have an advantage of 2½ inches, but Mayweather’s reach is an inch longer. Gavilan made 147-pounds without a sweat.
Strengths And Weaknesses: “The Cuban Hawk” could be dazzling when in the mood – a highly skilled boxer who seldom fought on the back foot. His defensive prowess and reflexes were remarkable, and he had one of the hardest chins around (dropped just twice in 143 fights). He preferred to stay at mid-range and fire combinations of blistering punches. His work rate, aggression and flashy style (that included the bolo punch) made him a crowd favorite. Weaknesses included the lack of a big punch (just 28 stoppages) and inconsistent form. A few of the decisions against him were dubious, and some were against middleweights, but he nevertheless lost several non-title bouts to lesser men (14 losses and four draws in his 116 fights prior to losing his world title).
Outcome: Mayweather is the harder puncher and has the edge in pure defensive prowess; Gavilan is busier and more aggressive. It might depend on which version turned up. Floyd would beat the lethargic Kid who fought Billy Graham in 1951, but the inspired version who trounced Graham in 1952 would be a different story. Mayweather is an extremely consistent performer, albeit one who fights nowhere near as frequently as Gavilan. Mayweather via split decision.


MAYWEATHER VS. RAY LEONARD

Credentials: Sugar Ray won the Olympic junior welterweight gold medal in 1976, and then picked up 25 welterweight wins (one of them, incidentally, against Floyd Mayweather Sr.) before handing defensive master Wilfred Benitez his first loss, dropping and then stopping him in the 15th to win the WBC belt. After knocking out Dave “Boy” Green in four rounds, Leonard looked set for a long reign. But in his second defense he went toe-to-toe with a determined Duran and deservedly lost his title on a close unanimous decision. In the return, however, Sugar Ray danced and taunted, until “Hands Of Stone” ran out of ideas and patience, and pulled his “no mas” stunt in the eighth. After another defense, Leonard moved up to stop Ayub Kalule for the WBA junior middleweight title before unifying the welterweight title by coming from behind to batter Tommy Hearns to defeat in the 14th round. He retired after only one more defense, a detached retina prompting the decision. The rest of his career (four wins, two losses, and a draw) was fought above welterweight, but those wins over Hearns, Duran, and Benitez mean his credentials at 147-pounds are significantly better than Mayweather’s, although the gap is not quite as wide as with Robinson, Armstrong, or Gavilan.
Physical Equipment: Leonard would have a 2-inch advantage in both height and reach and is naturally a bigger man than Mayweather. He never had weight troubles at a time of same-day weigh-ins.
Strengths And Weaknesses: Leonard’s blend of speed, skill, technique, power, versatility, ring intelligence and killer instinct was unmatched in his era. He could box, he could brawl, carried knockout power in both hands and was an excellent body puncher. His footwork was beautiful to watch, his defense tight, his reflexes as sharp as they come, and he could take a good shot (never dropped at welterweight). Leonard was also extremely consistent. If we are to search for negatives, we could say that Duran succeeded into goading him into a brawl, Hearns outboxed him for long spells, and Benitez frequently made him miss. But he eventually got the better of all these men.
Outcome: Mayweather, a far more cautious boxer than Leonard, is one of the few who could match Sugar Ray’s speed, reflexes and footwork, and surpass his defensive skills (in fact, his defense is better than even Benitez’s). Leonard, however, was bigger, busier, more aggressive and carried significantly more power. Mayweather would succeed in befuddling him for long stretches, but if he could only squeak home against De La Hoya (admittedly at junior middle), it would not be quite enough against Sugar Ray. Leonard wins on a unanimous decision.


MAYWEATHER VS. CHARLEY BURLEY

Credentials: Burley is regarded as one of the finest middleweights of them all – the man who outclassed Archie Moore and was avoided by Ray Robinson. But he also had an outstanding welterweight run, coming in at between 145-150-pounds on 38 occasions. He turned professional at 19 and went 16-1 before losing a disputed split decision to top welterweight contender Fritzie Zivic, when he was just 20. Burley avenged that three months later and also won their rubber match by a mile, but it was Zivic who got the title shot (beating Armstrong to become world champion). Instead, Burley had to be satisfied with the “Colored Welterweight Title” he won from the excellent Cocoa Kid, whom he dropped three times. The only welterweight on par with Burley was the highly skilled Holman Williams. In their first fight, in 1939, Burley scored three knockdowns, but Williams got the decision. In the rematch, in 1942, Burley prevailed. After that, he abandoned the 147-pound division and got the better of some of the world’s best middleweights, light heavyweights and one heavyweight (giving away 69 pounds but stopping the 220-pound J.D. Turner).
Physical Equipment: Burley stood 5-foot-9½ and for the first six years of his career seemed comfortable making welterweight. Even when he moved up, he was on the small side (151 pounds for his second fight with the 160-pound Ezzard Charles), and would happily have returned to 147 for a title shot.
Strengths and Weaknesses: The only fight film of Burley (his win over the light-heavyweight Oakland Billy Smith in 1946) shows him to be slippery, perfectly balanced and extremely accurate with his overhand right. He was a precision puncher with impeccable timing and he owned one of the hardest chins in the game. Moore, whom he dropped four times, described him as the finest he faced: “as slick as lard and twice as greasy.” But Burley was not perfect. Highly skilled boxers such as Williams troubled him, and they ended up with three wins apiece. He was twice whipped by the speedy Charles and nearly stopped him in their first bout. Other slick middleweights who edged him included Lloyd Marshall and Jimmy Bivens. Like Mayweather, Burley had hand troubles, contributing to his third welterweight defeat against Jimmy Leto (later avenged).
Outcome: Burley mixed training with day jobs. For example, he took the Moore gig at the last moment, and completed his shift at an aircraft factory on the day of the fight. With time to train and a title at stake, he’d be even more formidable. Mayweather’s speed and elusiveness would be troublesome, but it would not be enough (Charles, Bivens, and Marshall were big middleweights, not smallish welterweights). Burley could match Mayweather’s defensive brilliance and hit significantly harder. He’d drop Floyd on his way to winning a close 15-round decision.

Obama
01-30-2010, 08:00 AM
Source (http://www.ringtv.com/blog/1577/floyd_mayweather_jr_vs_alltime_welterweight_greats _part_ii/)

Part III


MAYWEATHER VS. JOSE NAPOLES

Credentials: Napoles turned professional in Cuba as a featherweight at 18 after a 114-1 amateur career. Four years later, in 1962, he relocated to Mexico City and made his mark as one of the world’s leading lightweights. But despite a string of victories over world rated lightweights and junior welterweights, he was denied a title shot. In 1968, Napoles moved to welterweight and eight months later knocked out Curtis Cokes in the 13th rounds to win the undisputed world title. Two months later, he repeated the trick, this time in 10 rounds, and then turned back the challenge of former world welterweight and middleweight champion Emile Griffith, dropping him in the third on his way to a wide decision victory. Napoles followed this with a 15-round TKO of Ernie Lopez, but lost his title on cuts in the fourth round against Billy Backus. He regained it six months later, pounding Backus to defeat in eight, and dominated his division for nearly five more years. His only loss in this period was to the far bigger Carlos Monzon (in seven rounds) when Napoles tried to win the world middleweight title. He finally lost the title in his 88th bout, at the age of 35, getting stopped in six by Britain’s John Stracey. In all, he won 15 of his 17 world title bouts.
Physical Equipment: Napoles stood 5-foot-7½ (half an inch shorter than Mayweather) and had a 72-inch reach (the same as Mayweather). A year before winning the world title, he could still make lightweight, and he weighed in at 143-pounds when he beat Cokes, though he later filled out. In other words, he was a bit smaller than Mayweather.
Strengths And Weaknesses: Known as “Mantequilla” (butter) because of his smooth, relaxed boxing style, Napoles was beautiful to watch, a wonderful, flowing blend of superb boxing skill, chilling power and perfect timing and accuracy. Of his 81 victories, 55 came via knockout, several against bigger men. He was, however, small for the division (really, no more than a junior welterweight in his prime), not particularly strong and he had a tendency to cut (contributing to three of his defeats). His heavy-drinking lifestyle was a factor in his decline.
Outcome: This would be a magnificent bout for the connoisseur: two immensely gifted boxers testing their skills and power against each other. Mayweather is quicker than Napoles and is also a bit bigger and stronger, but “Mantequilla” hits harder. What gives Mayweather the edge, however, is his greater fitness and dedication – and Napoles’ fragile facial skin. After a close, tactical bout, look for Mayweather’s slashing punches to carve up the Cuban, forcing a 14th-round stoppage.


MAYWEATHER VS. CARMEN BASILIO

Credentials: Basilio is most famous for splitting two ferociously fought 15-rounders with Sugar Ray Robinson for the world middleweight title. But Basilio was at his best at welterweight, where he twice held the world title. He turned professional at 21 in 1948 and worked his way through the welterweight ranks as he learned his trade (mainly wins, but with a few losses and draws along the way). He hit his peak in his fifth professional year, with a win over Ike Williams and a win and a draw against previous conqueror Billy Graham. This secured him a title shot against Kid Gavilan, whom he dropped for a nine-count in the second round, only to lose a split decision. It took two years before Basilio was granted a second title shot, and he overcame a rocky start to stop Tony DeMarco in 12. In the rematch, the pattern was repeated in another thriller, with Basilio’s body attack draining De Marco, who was stopped in 12 again. The Canastota, N.Y., onion – a dubious decision against Mob-connected Johnny Saxton – but in the return, Basilio swarmed all over him, scoring a ninth round KO. He knocked Saxton out in two rounds in their rubber match, and seven months later outpointed Robinson to win the world middleweight title. Between 1952 and 1957, Basilio had a streak of 33 fights, and his only losses were a close one against the brilliant Gavilan and a suspicious one, twice avenged, against Saxton.
Physical Equipment: Basilio was a short-armed, broad-backed, chunky 5-foot-6½ and had no trouble making 147-pounds. (When he won the middleweight title he bulked up to 153½ pounds). Mayweather is 1½ inches inch taller, with a 6-inch reach advantage.
Strengths And Weaknesses: Basilio was a swarming, heavy-handed brawler who was as gritty, courageous and strong as they come. He put immense pressure on opponents. Although he was better than adequate defensively, his main protection came through his incessant aggression. He was good at cutting off the ring and never stopped coming. This was aided by his immense stamina and an unusual capacity for absorbing punishment. He was an outstanding body puncher, but he lacked one-punch knockout power (25 stoppages in 79 bouts). Also, at the elite level, he took too many punches and marked up easily.
Outcome: Basilio was stronger than Mayweather and his non-stop aggression might cause some problems. The Italian-American would never give up, which would mean Mayweather would have an uncomfortable night. But in the end, Mayweather’s huge advantages in hand and foot speed and defensive skill would be too much for Basilio, who would mark up badly but make it to the final bell. Mayweather by unanimous decision.


MAYWEATHER VS. EMILE GRIFFITH

Credentials: Griffith turned professional in his adopted home of New York in 1958 and won his first 13 fights before dropping a split decision to middleweight Randy Sandy. Wins over leading welterweight contenders Florentino Fernandez, Jorge Jose Fernandez, Willie Toweel and Luis Rodriguez secured him a title shot, and he knocked out Benny “Kid” Paret in 13. Five months later, in September 1961, Paret regained the title via split decision. This set up the rubber match in March 1962. Griffith rose from a sixth-round knockdown to take control and in round 12 pinned Parent to the ropes and rained an unanswered barrage of blows to the head. Paret went into a coma and died 10 days later. Griffiths never got over the tragedy but fought seven times over the following year, including winning the junior middleweight title and making two more welterweight title defenses. In March 1963, he lost the welterweight title on points to the brilliantly elusive Rodriguez, but he soon regained it, again via split decision, to become welterweight champion for the third time. Over the next two years, he made four more defenses, including another split decision over Rodriguez. In 1966, he moved up to outpoint Dick Tiger for the middleweight title. After three years at middleweight, he dropped back down to welterweight. Weighing just 144½ pounds, he challenged Napoles for the welterweight title but lost widely on points. In all, he had 13 world welterweight title bouts, winning 10.
Physical Equipment: At 5-foot-7½, Griffith was half an inch shorter than Mayweather, but they had the same reach (72 inches). The broad-shouldered, deep-chested Virgin Islander looked like a middleweight but never had trouble making the welterweight limit, and weighed just 150½ pounds when he won the 160-pound world title.
Strengths And Weaknesses: Griffith was essentially a boxer who used quick hands, sophisticated technique, and split-second timing to get results. He could work at any range and had an exceptionally tight defense. He was not a heavy puncher, but still stopped 40 percent of his welterweight opponents. Although twice knocked out at middleweight, he was never stopped at welterweight. He was good at everything without being brilliant in any one department. Griffith was weight-drained when he lost to Napoles, but in his prime, the welterweight opponent who gave him most trouble was the slick, slippery, fleet-footed Rodriquez (all three of Griffith’s wins were split decisions; Rodriguez’s win was a unanimous decision).
Outcome: Surprisingly, it is the slightly taller, considerably leaner Mayweather who is the puncher in this one. He’s also just a bit quicker and more elusive, but Griffith’s hand speed, versatility and superior work rate make most of the rounds competitive. In the end, Mayweather takes it on a close, but unanimous decision.

Obama
01-30-2010, 08:01 AM
Part IV.....


MAYWEATHER VS. THOMAS HEARNS

Credentials: “The Hitman” is hard to rate at welterweight. He saw off a trio of excellent 147-pound champions, outboxing Wilfred Benitez, flattening Roberto Duran and getting the better of Sugar Ray Leonard in a drawn fight. But all of these were at higher weights. His welterweight record was 32-1 (30 KOs), but it’s that single blemish (in the first Leonard fight) that everyone remembers. On his way up, he stopped former WBA titlist Angel Espada, future WBA junior welterweight titleholder Bruce Curry and a few decent contenders. He looked monstrous in blasting out Pipino Cuevas for the WBA belt, but the Mexican is hardly regarded as one of the greats. Hearns marked time with three non-descript defenses, all ending inside the distance, before taking on Leonard. He had an outstanding 155-8 amateur career when he was known as a light-hitting defensive boxer, and he used these skills effectively, outboxing Sugar Ray for long periods. He was ahead on the scorecards when Leonard battered him to defeat in the 14th round. After that, Hearns moved up and won titles at junior middleweight, middleweight and light heavyweight.
Physical Equipment: The 6-foot-1 Hearns is 5 inches taller than Mayweather and outreaches him by 6 inches. He was huge for a welterweight, with broad shoulders but skinny legs. Toward the end of his welterweight period, he struggled with weight and then made the mistake of coming in too light against Leonard (145 pounds).
Strengths And Weaknesses: Hearns was probably the hardest puncher in welterweight history. His right cross was devastating and he was also a potent body puncher. His jab was magnificent, and he was also a highly skilled defensive boxer. His size meant that he dwarfed most of his welterweight opponents, and very few of them could find a way inside. Hearns’ kryptonite was his jaw, although only Leonard exploited it at welterweight.
Outcome: Mayweather managed to get by other significantly taller men (like Diego Corrales and Philip Ndou) but never faced anyone with close to Hearns’ combination of size, power and boxing skill. Oscar De La Hoya succeeded in out-jabbing Mayweather in the first half of their fight, and Hearns had a far better jab than De La Hoya. Mayweather would need all his skills and guile to avoid it – and the rights that would inevitably follow. He certainly has the power to hurt Hearns, but does not hit as hard as Leonard, which means Hearns would be able to take more chances with full-blooded crosses and hooks to the body. It would be fascinating for several rounds, with Mayweather making Hearns miss before slipping in with sharp counters. But Hearns’ huge advantages in size and power, and that long, sharp, accurate jab, would prove too much, forcing Floyd to run for cover. Hearns via TKO 13.


MAYWEATHER VS. MICKEY WALKER

Credentials: The “Toy Bulldog” is best known as a great middleweight champion who went on to hold the prime Jack Sharkey to a draw in a heavyweight fight, but his first six professional years (92 fights) were fought mainly at welterweight. The Irish-American street fighter turned professional at 18 and fought 22 times the first 12 months. In 1921, he was thrown in with world champion Jack Britton and was handily outboxed. But Walker continued to learn and had a second try 16 months later. This time the 144-pound Walker dropped Britton three times and romped home with a unanimous decision – part of a 29-fight unbeaten run that ended in 1925, when he lost to Harry Greb in a bid for the world middleweight title. Walker held the welterweight title for four years, had 32 fights during that time, and is credited with six successful title defenses (some of them NBA version only). Among the top welterweights he bettered were Pete Latzo, Lew Tendler and Dave Shade, and he also won a newspaper decision over Mike McTigue in a no-decision bout for the world light-heavyweight title. In 1926, he came in out of shape and lost his title to Latzo, who used his skill and movement to prevail. That was followed by a loss on cuts to future champion Joe Dundee, after which Walker moved up to middleweight, winning a highly questionable decision over world champion Tiger Flowers. He was middleweight champion for three years and twice lost split decisions for the world light heavyweight title. He also beat several top heavyweight contenders.
Physical Equipment: The 5-foot-7 Walker was a squat, short-armed, powerfully built man, and an inch shorter than Mayweather, with a 5-inch reach deficit. For most of his welterweight title reign, he had no problem making the weight, and he came in at just 149¾ pounds when he fought McTigue for the light heavyweight title.
Strengths And Weaknesses: The Toy Bulldog looks like a modern fighter on film. He kept pressing forward, crouching to get inside, and he liked working up-close, throwing heavy body blows, some going astray (three disqualification losses in his early years). He was exceptionally strong, brave and heavy-handed, with a vicious left hook and a sturdy chin, although he sometimes sustained cuts. He developed a bob and weave style to avoid punches, but occasionally could be outboxed at the elite level, as Greb, Latzo, and Dundee showed. His partying life also contributed to his title loss in 1926.
Outcome: Walker would attack relentlessly, throwing bombs while regularly getting warned for low blows. Mayweather would fight in retreat, trying to pick him off with sharp counters, but would struggle to keep Walker at bay. In the end, however, Mayweather’s superior speed and skills would prove decisive. His sharp punches would open up cuts around Walker’s eyes, prompting a 10th-round stoppage.

lightsmac
01-30-2010, 04:48 PM
dude thinks highly of mayweather. i think SRR kayos him

Obama
01-30-2010, 05:01 PM
dude thinks highly of mayweather. i think SRR kayos him

What defensive genius did Robinson ever KO? What skilled WW with a great chin did Robinson ever KO?

Fight goes the distance. As does the Hearns fight. Hearns couldn't KO Benitez, won't KO Floyd.

buko
01-30-2010, 07:25 PM
IMO Mayweather still has a lot to prove at WW before comparing him with the greatest WWs ever. Let him first fight the greatest WWs of today, and then we can compare him with the greatest WWs ever.

Welshy
01-30-2010, 07:38 PM
Gavin Evans is a pretty good writer; I'm someway through his book Dancing Shoes is Dead, and it's an interesting read thus far.

lightsmac
01-30-2010, 11:53 PM
What defensive genius did Robinson ever KO? What skilled WW with a great chin did Robinson ever KO?

Fight goes the distance. As does the Hearns fight. Hearns couldn't KO Benitez, won't KO Floyd.

i dont think mayweather fight like an ATG at 147. hearns and srr both kayo him. benitez was a big WW and had a great D.

Obama
01-31-2010, 05:45 AM
i dont think mayweather fight like an ATG at 147. hearns and srr both kayo him. benitez was a big WW and had a great D.

Benitez D is nothing compared to Floyd's. Size won't matter. Mayweather isn't even all that small @ WW anymore. He looked a good 155 in his last fight. Anyways, Robinson never KOed a WW remotely on Floyd's level.

Never KOed Gavilan.
Never KOed Angott.
Never KOed Armstrong.
Never KOed Servo (got a gift in fight 2).
Never KOed Bell.
And he got lucky with Zivic in the second fight, said so himself (if I remember correctly).

Robinson was not a KO artist when his opposition actually knew how to box quite well.

Tike Myson
02-01-2010, 10:12 AM
Flyod was great at 130 & 135 but he hasn't done nearly enough to prove himself as one of the best at 147. He might have the potential to be mentioned among the best at 147 one day, but he needs to step up and face the best guys out there, taking the Mosley fight is a step in the right direction.

Obama
02-01-2010, 10:18 AM
Flyod was great at 130 & 135 but he hasn't done nearly enough to prove himself as one of the best at 147. He might have the potential to be mentioned among the best at 147 one day, but he needs to step up and face the best guys out there, taking the Mosley fight is a step in the right direction.

The article is not about rating him as an ATG Welterweight. It's about predicting how he'd do against them.

Greatness is a matter of accomplishments.
Who'd win a fight is a matter of talent.

Quite frankly Mayweather is more talented than most of the guys mentioned in the article.

Tike Myson
02-01-2010, 10:36 AM
The article is not about rating him as an ATG Welterweight. It's about predicting how he'd do against them.

Greatness is a matter of accomplishments.
Who'd win a fight is a matter of talent.

Quite frankly Mayweather is more talented than most of the guys mentioned in the article.

Well I haven't seen enough video of the old timers to give a good prediction, but as far as Hearns and SRL go, I gotta agree with the article. You say that Hearns wouldn't KO Mayweather but do you agree he would defeat Mayweather?
And winning a fight also has to do with heart, punching power, and having a good chin among other things.

Obama
02-01-2010, 10:40 AM
Well I haven't seen enough video of the old timers to give a good prediction, but as far as Hearns and SRL go, I gotta agree with the article. You say that Hearns wouldn't KO Mayweather but do you agree he would defeat Mayweather?
And winning a fight also has to do with heart, punching power, and having a good chin among other things.

Punching power and chin are in the talent department in my book. Heart is important but not something I bring up when discussing elite fighters. They all have heart.

Anyways, I'd go with Hearns by decision. Not sure Leonard would beat him tho, that's a toss up for me.

Tike Myson
02-01-2010, 10:56 AM
Punching power and chin are in the talent department in my book. Heart is important but not something I bring up when discussing elite fighters. They all have heart.

Anyways, I'd go with Hearns by decision. Not sure Leonard would beat him tho, that's a toss up for me.

I don't think having a good chin equals talent, Ross Purrity has fought the distance against a lot of good heavyweights and has only been stopped 3 times in his 20 losses, so he has a good chin but he clearly isn't the most talented boxer & the same goes for punching power, there have been lots of boxers that can throw a hell of a punch but they weren't talented boxers (eg. Mayorga). And there are some fighters that have more heart than others & some who have a lot of natural talent that they never really had to rely on heart. An example is Mike Tyson, he was a beast and never really had to dig deep to pull off the victory but when the going got tough he would break down. Not saying Tyson didn't have any heart but he wasn't exactly Gatti.

Obama
02-01-2010, 11:01 AM
I don't think having a good chin equals talent, Ross Purrity has fought the distance against a lot of good heavyweights and has only been stopped 3 times in his 20 losses, so he has a good chin but he clearly isn't the most talented boxer & the same goes for punching power, there have been lots of boxers that can throw a hell of a punch but they weren't talented boxers (eg. Mayorga). And there are some fighters that have more heart than others & some who have a lot of natural talent that they never really had to rely on heart. An example is Mike Tyson, he was a beast and never really had to dig deep to pull off the victory but when the going got tough he would break down. Not saying Tyson didn't have any heart but he wasn't exactly Gatti.

Chin and punching power are singular talents. To be an overall talented boxer, you have to be multi-talented.

I'd also argue Tyson has just as much heart as any fighter. The man never quit. The 8 round beating he took from Lewis is more than revealing. no one would have faulted him for giving up after the midway point. Getting KOed is no indication of how much heart you have. In all his KO defeats he took a rather large amount of punishment before it ended.

Tike Myson
02-01-2010, 11:14 AM
Chin and punching power are singular talents. To be an overall talented boxer, you have to be multi-talented.

I'd also argue Tyson has just as much heart as any fighter. The man never quit. The 8 round beating he took from Lewis is more than revealing. no one would have faulted him for giving up after the midway point. Getting KOed is no indication of how much heart you have. In all his KO defeats he took a rather large amount of punishment before it ended.

I can agree with you that having a good chin and punching power are singular talents. And as far as Tyson goes, I love the guy but if he was in a tough fight you can see him get discouraged and I believe he lacked heart, especially in the later part of his career, maybe not pre-prison Tyson.

Obama
02-01-2010, 04:32 PM
I can agree with you that having a good chin and punching power are singular talents. And as far as Tyson goes, I love the guy but if he was in a tough fight you can see him get discouraged and I believe he lacked heart, especially in the later part of his career, maybe not pre-prison Tyson.

When a fighter is getting beat by a better man, they generally do get discouraged. Especially when they're getting beat, and beat up at the same time. Also Mike lost the fire in his belly post '89 really. Never recovered from the Robin Givens TKO. He always kept a game plan before then. Holmes, Thomas, and Tillis were all out boxing him early in their respective fights, but Mike turned it around.