View Full Version : FFTP Scoring League - Holmes vs Witherspoon

10-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Background Info

Welcome to the second installment of the Fights From The Past Scoring League. This league is devoted to scoring old fights (nothing newer than the 1990s). The official outcome of chosen fights may or may not be heavily disputed, and it's up to whoever creates the thread to select the fight he/she wants to score. Not only will this person score the fight, but anyone else who wants to contribute a scorecard may do so at their leisure. Scorecards will be accepted any day and at any time.

As for the content, you can expect to see some fights here so old that they are filmed in black and white. The only condition is all rounds of the fight must be displayed in the video! Consider this a great opportunity to match the history of what actually happened to what you believe should have happened. Also consider it a great opportunity to see how others scored the fight, and why they saw it that way. You'd be surprised how your opinion about a fight can change after paying attention to other people's observations. No single pair of eyes catches everything, so be considerate of other people's opinions (even if you adamantly disagree). Also keep in mind not everyone may be well versed in scoring fights. Simply put, not everyone understands judging criteria. But their opinion is still welcome. By all means feel free to argue your scorecards, just don't insult each other.

See All FFTP Scoring League Threads Here (http://sweetboxing.com/showthread.php?t=1070)


Ideally you should give a round by round score of the fight, and tally the total at the end. A 3 round example is given below:

Round 1: 10-9 Fighter A
Round 2: 9-10 Fighter B
Round 3: 10-8 Fighter A

Final Score: 29 - 27 Fighter A

If this is too much work for you, so be it. Just throw up your final score. Or if you're feeling extra ambitious, you can write a description below each round score which explains why you scored it the way you did.

There is no time limit on when you have to get this scorecard in.

The Fight

The fight of this thread features what many believe to be the first unofficial loss of the great Larry Holmes, and it came at the hands of a young and inexperienced Tim Witherspoon. Despite having only 15 bouts going into this fight, Witherspoon put on one of the best performances of his career. Sadly, his career never materialized into something worthy of his talents. But that's another story, enjoy the fight.

Larry Holmes vs. Tim Witherspoon
Date: 1983-05-20
Location: Dunes Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada, United States
referee: Mills Lane
judge: Chuck Minker 115-113
judge: Chuck Hassett 118-111
judge: Herb Santos 114-115
Belts: WBC Heavyweight Title / Ring Title / Lineal Championship
Weights: Holmes 213 - Witherspoon 219½

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10-17-2009, 07:03 PM
I have one question: in round 9 Witherspoon seriously shook Holmes and had him on the verge of stoppage, but Holmes came back in the last minute or so and landed some shots on Tim. Now is that a 10-9 round or a 10-8 round for Witherspoon?

10-17-2009, 07:37 PM
I have one question: in round 9 Witherspoon seriously shook Holmes and had him on the verge of stoppage, but Holmes came back in the last minute or so and landed some shots on Tim. Now is that a 10-9 round or a 10-8 round for Witherspoon?

10-9 Witherspoon.

10-17-2009, 07:39 PM
Round 1: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
Tim easily picks off Larry's punches this round and lands the only clean and effective punches. Most of the scoring is done in the first half the the round as Tim just laughs at Larry for the rest of it.

*Round 2: 10 – 9 Holmes
It's a battle of jabs in the early going of the second round, but Tim quickly backs Larry off as he goes to the body. Tim is countering well and Larry just can't seem to find the mark. This continues until the midway point of the round where Larry and Tim briefly tie up. They break apart as Tim slips in a sneaky short right. Tim later lands a left hook that seems to have awakened Larry a little. He flurries briefly but nothing lands. Larry manages to land a good right hand to the body and later another one to the head as he catches Tim rushing in at the end of the round. Larry landed the best punch of the round, but Tim landed more often. Neither fighter however landed much, so this round could go either way. I edged it to Larry for finishing stronger.

*Round 3: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
Larry does considerably better with the jab this round while Witherspoon is mostly content with staring at him, catching punches, and looking for an opening. He catches him clean here and there but without the force seen landed in the previous rounds. Midway through Larry lands a pretty good right hand that catches Tim on the ear. Meanwhile, Tim has been landing some good hooks to the body since the beginning of the round. Into the last minute of the round Tim lands his best body punch yet, and Larry clinches him in order to force a break and get out of the ring corner. Larry backs up with his hands down and eats eats one of Tim's hook-like-jabs for his troubles. As the round draws to a close Tim swings this close round his way by going on the offensive, landing a good left hook and straight right hand in the process. Larry is retreating quickly and holds on at the bell.

Round 4: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
Early in the round both fighters paw with the jab, and as Larry tries to sneak in a sharp one, Tim slips it and counters with a big right hand. The two exchange jabs back and forth for a good while, Larry throwing a little more, and Tim landing a lot more. At the end of the second minute Larry tries to flurry, but it's ineffective and Tim counters well to the body. Tim then seems to take his foot off the gas and lets Larry sneak in a couple punches, including a right hand with about 30 seconds to go in the round. However as before, too little and too late for Larry.

Round 5: 10 – 9 Holmes
Larry puts together a good combination early in this round that catches Tim's attention. Tim begins to pursue Larry vehemently and begins to get a little more physical. The right hand Larry landed at the end of his combination apparently didn't sit too well with Tim. Tim begins to put a lot of pressure on Larry, but Larry does a good job of keeping his distance. He manages to put together a few more good combinations, and a couple pot shots here and there to earn his first round of the fight. Tim meanwhile is competitive at all times and looks to be the one in control when the two fall in close.

*Round 6: 10 – 9 Holmes
This was a REALLY close round and could easily be ruled a draw or for either fighter. I gave it to Larry because he put in good bit of more work. Tim was a little more accurate, and landed the more meaningful punches, but just didn't let his hands go enough to claim this one for me.

Round 7: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
In the first half of this round Tim backed Larry up well and did great body work. And after a few good body punches, he'd throw one of his many hooks upstairs. Tim is clearly the aggressor in this round and is making up for taking his foot off the gas in the last one. Midway through he even begins to rock Larry with hooks upstairs. Larry comes back like the Champion he is, but is a good bit slower, and much less effective. However Tim takes his foot off the gas just long enough for Larry to get back into the swing of things and start putting together some good combinations. Finally caught clean by a good 1-2, Tim comes right back and works the body, then lands a great right hand that catches Larry on the chin and momentarily stops him in his tracks. Moments later Larry is seen briefly holding on to the ropes. But Tim seems to have punched himself out again, and mostly lets Larry off the hook for the rest of the round. Either way, this was clearly a Witherspoon round.

*Round 8: 10 – 10 Even
Neither man deserved to win this round. It was dead even and back and forth the whole way through. No one left an impression. This was largely due to the fact that Tim was mostly content to focus on the body this round, while Larry head hunted. Both did equally good work in the areas the focused on.

Round 9: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
Tim has Larry hurt bad this round, with most of the round to go. Larry holds when he can, and puts together desperation combinations to keep Tim off of him. Tim meanwhile takes his time and continues to put the pressure on, and doesn't neglect going back to the body when appropriate. Halfway through the round Tim has Larry hurt even worse, as Larry takes a beating in the corner. Larry finds himself falling around the ring and you can hear Angelo Dundee yelling “He's Out of it!” over and over again. Larry somehow manages to stay on his feet and begins to throw haymakers in retaliation. Tim then, as he's done before, takes his foot off the gas and lets Larry recover. Tim does so little that he actually lets Larry win the last minute of the round, allowing Larry to avoid a 10 – 8 round in Tim's favor.

Round 10: 10 – 9 Holmes
For the first 2 minutes and 30 seconds of this round Larry gets on his toes and easily out boxes a tired, flat footed Witherspoon who doesn't put up much resistance aside from his usual defense. However, the last 30 seconds belonged to Tim as he literally turned into Muhammad Ali and gave the fans the greatest satisfaction of the round by beautifully performing the Ali shuffle and launching loose jabs directly into Larry's face. Nonetheless, too little too late, this was clearly a Holmes round.

Round 11: 10 – 9 Holmes
Close round, but I think it's a pretty clear round for Holmes. I like Larry's jabs over Tim's hooks in this round. Tim actually had trouble getting past the jab, something he appeared actively trying to do rather than simply not pursuing Larry as in other instances. Tim's footwork is what kept him a step behind Larry this round.

*Round 12: 9 – 10 Witherspoon
Close, competitive, entertaining round that I think Witherspoon pulled it out in. He landed all the eye popping punches, he landed with the better connect percentage, he managed to keep his work rate high, and he even threw in another Ali shuffle.

Final Score: 5-6-1 Witherspoon (114 – 115)

Score Variances:
*Scoring the starred rounds even, I got it 3-5-4 Witherspoon (116 – 117).
*Scoring all the starred rounds to Witherspoon, I got it 3-9 Witherspoon (111 – 117).
*Scoring all the starred rounds to Holmes, I got it 7-5 Holmes (115 – 113).

11-20-2010, 02:07 PM
Round 1:
- Holmes 10
- Witherspoon 9
Round 2:
- Holmes 10
- Witherspoon 10
Round 3:
- Holmes 9
- Witherspoon 10
Round 4:
- Holmes 9
- Witherspoon 10
Round 5:
- Holmes 10
- Witherspoon 9
Round 6:
- Holmes 10
- Witherspoon 9
Round 7:
- Holmes 9
- Witherspoon 10
Round 8:
- Holmes 10
- Witherspoon 9
Round 9:
- Holmes 9
- Witherspoon 10
Round 10:
- Holmes 10
- Witherspoon 9
Round 11:
- Holmes 10
- Witherspoon 9
Round 12:
- Holmes 9
- Witherspoon 10

TOTALS --> 115 - 114 Holmes

11-20-2010, 07:07 PM
Round 1:Holmes 10-9 *Both guys have their moments, but Holmes is more active.
Round 2: Witherspoon 19-19 *Tim lands the best punches while Holmes catches him in the end, but doesn't hurt him.
Round 3: Witherspoon 28-29 *Witherspoon penetrates Holmes' defense very well in this one.
Round 4: Witherspoon 37-39
Round 5: Holmes 47-48
Round 6: Holmes 57-57 *Like in the last round, Witherspoon landed some good shots but was outworked by Holmes and his jab.
Round 7: Witherspoon 66-67 *Terrible Tim gets the better of Larry in this toe-to-toe round.
Round 8: Witherspoon 75-77 *Witherspoon proceeds to bust up Holmes.
Round 9: Witherspoon 84-87 *Spoon got Holmes virtually on the verge of a knockout but Holmes weathers the storm and lands some good punches.
Round 10: even 94-97 *Holmes starts off best, but Tim glimmers in the last minute.
Round 11: Holmes 104-106 *Holmes is more effective against a weary Witherspoon.
Round 12: even *Too close to call.

116-114 Witherspoon (6-4-2)

11-22-2010, 01:16 PM
i scored this a while ago i remember having holmes winning by one
i will try to dig out my card later

08-11-2011, 11:03 AM
Larry Holmes - Tim Witherspoon
Round 1:9:10
Round 2:9:10
Round 3:9:10
Round 4:10:9
Round 5:10:9
Round 6:10:9
Round 7:9:10
Round 8:9:10
Round 9:9:10
Final result:114:114 Draw, Officially:115:113,118:111,114:115 Holmes by Split Decision.