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View Full Version : Joe Calzaghe. Career and Legacy.



HeavyHitter
04-18-2009, 10:05 AM
I will bite. I had to bring him in. How highly Obama and others do you rate Joe Calzaghes career. And does knowing that Hopkins turned down a fight two years before they actually battled, mean that hes forgiven for fighting a shade of unknowns during different periods of his career.

Sweet Pea
04-18-2009, 04:12 PM
Hopkins turned down the fight during his Middleweight years. I understand he asked for more money but who can blame him? Pound-for-pound Boxing king, undisputed middleweight champion and he'd have to move UP in weight to fight a guy who was largely unknown and unproven by that point.

Calzaghe will forever have a tainted legacy simply because of his refusal to cross the ocean and fight in the United States. It doesn't matter how we feel the fact is if you want to become a big name in Boxing the only place to establish yourself is the USA and Calzaghe never done that. Most of his Showtime fights bombed and drew the worst television ratings you could imagine. Calzaghe had (and still doesn't have) no drawing power whatsoever. His pay-per-view against Roy Jones bombed as well.

The fact is Calzaghe has a lot of bullshit stoppages to his name, he has absolutely no victories on his resume that can be considered A-Level (Kessler and Hopkins are his closest, the prior being unproven and the latter being over the hill). People say that Hopkins, Jones, Taylor all turned down big fights but Calzaghe can't go from fighting David Starie to fighting some of Boxings P4P elite.

Calzaghe is talent but doesn't have the names on his resume to back it up.

Obama
04-18-2009, 04:17 PM
I will bite. I had to bring him in. How highly Obama and others do you rate Joe Calzaghes career. And does knowing that Hopkins turned down a fight two years before they actually battled, mean that hes forgiven for fighting a shade of unknowns during different periods of his career.

I don't see how Joe Calzaghe can be excused for his career. He wanted these so called big fights earlier in his career, but he never made himself marketable. He wasn't even a big name in his own country until he beat Jeff Lacy. That was only about 3 years ago. Calzaghe should have done the following to have made his career better:

1) He should have moved up to Light Heavyweight a long time ago. The Super Middleweight division was a joke while Calzaghe dominated it. RJJ and Toney had already left, and Benn, Eubank, and Collins were out of the game completely.

2) He should have been fighting in the US a decade ago. That's how you get exposure to fight the American fighters you seek recognition against. You don't just go from unknown to super fight with RJJ for a big payday. I mean, Calzaghe could have got some of these fights anyways if he took a SMALL percentage of the purse, and fought outside of the UK. But these are things Calzaghe was never willing to do.

3) Found a better promotor. Frank Warren did him no favors. By the end of his career Calzaghe would later regret Frank ever being his promotor as he found himself going to court with the man.

4) Stop pulling out of matches. Calzaghe pulled out of so many fights that, he managed to pull out of a fight with 1 man THREE seperate times. That man was Glen Johnson. And in the year Calzaghe continously pulled out against him, Glen went on to become fighter of the year and the Ring Light Heavyweight Champion.


Anyways, here's how I relate Calzaghe's career with his former Middleweight and Light Heavyweight contemporaries:


Bernard Hopkins
Notable Wins:
Lupe Aquino <Post-Prime>
Action Jackson <Over the hill>
Glen Johnson <Undefeated>
Simon Brown <Over the hill>
Robert Allen (x2)
Antwun Echols (x2)
Keith Holmes
Felix Trinidad <Undefeated>
Carl Daniels
William Joppy
Oscar De La Hoya
Howard Eastman
Antonio Tarver
Winky Wright <Post-Prime / Wrong Weight Class>
Kelly Pavlik
Notable Losses:
Roy Jones Jr. <Hopkins Pre-Prime>
Jermain Taylor (x2) <Hopkins Post-Prime>
Questionable Losses:
Jermain Taylor

Joe Calzaghe




'A' level wins:

Felix Trinidad, Oscar De La Hoya

'A-' level wins:

Antonio Tarver, Winky Wright, Kelly Pavlik

'B' level wins:

Action Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Robert Allen (x2), Antwun Echols (x2), Keith Holmes, Carl Daniels, William Joppy, Howard Eastman

'B-' level wins:

Lupe Aquino




Point Total: 4 + 4.5 + 10 + 0 – 2.5 = 16






Roy Jones Jr
Notable Wins:
Jorge Fernando Castro
Bernard Hopkins <Pre-prime>
Thulani Malinga
James Toney <Undefeated>
Vinny Pazienza <Over the hill>
Mike McCallum <Over the hill>
Montell Griffin <Undefeated>
Virgil Hill <Post-prime>
Reggie Johnson <Over the hill>
Eric Harding <Undefeated>
Julio Cesar Gonzalez <Undefeated> <Pre-Prime>
Clinton Woods
John Ruiz
Antonio Tarver
Notable Losses:
Antonio Tarver (x2) <Jones Post-Prime>
Glen Johnson <Jones Post-Prime>
Questionable Wins:
Antonio Tarver I
Questionable Losses:

Montell Griffin I




'A' level wins:

James Toney

'A-' level wins:

Bernard Hopkins, Montell Griffin, Virgil Hill, Antonio Tarver

'B' level wins:

Jorge Fernando Castro, Thulani Malinga, Vinny Pazienza, Mike McCallum, Reggie Johnson, Eric Harding, Julio Cesar Gonzalez, Clinton Woods, John Ruiz

'B-' level wins:

None




Point Total: 2 + 6 + 9 + 0 – 4.5 = 12.5




James Toney
Notable Wins:
Michael Nunn <Undefeated>
Reggie Johnson
Mike McCallum (x2)
Doug DeWitt <Over the hill>
Iran Barkley <Over the hill>
Tim Littles <Undefeated>
“Prince” Charles Williams <Over the hill>
Adolpho Washington <Over the hill>
Vassiliy Jirov <Undefeated>
Evander Holyfield <Over the hill>
Notable NCs:
John Ruiz
Hasim Rahman <Post-prime>
Questionable Wins:
Reggie Johnson
Mike McCallum II
Fres Oquendo
Questionable Losses:
Montell Griffin (x2)
Samuel Peter I
Notable Losses:
Roy Jones Jr. <Toney weight drained>
Montell Griffin (x2) <Toney weight drained for 1st fight>
Drake Thadzi <Toney weight drained to the point he couldn't even make the weight>

Samuel Peter (x2) <Toney Post-Prime>




'A' level wins:

Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum I

'A-' level wins:

Tim Littles, Vassiliy Jirov

'B' level wins:

Doug DeWitt, Iran Barkley, “Prince” Charles Williams, Mike McCallum II, Evander Holyfield, John Ruiz (half credit)

'B-' level wins:

Adolpho Washington, Hasim Rahman (half credit)




Point Total: 6 + 3 + 5 + .75 – 7.5 = 7.25





Joe Calzaghe:
Notable Wins:
Chris Eubank <Over the hill>
Robin Reid
Richie Woodhall
Charles Brewer <Post-prime>
Bryon Mitchell
Jeff "No Left Hook" Lacy <Undefeated>
Sakio Bika
Mikkel Kessler <Undefeated>
Bernard Hopkins <Over the hill>
Roy Jones Jr. <Over the hill>
Questionable Wins:
Robin Reid <Calzaghe sick>

Bernard Hopkins




'A' level wins:

None

'A-' level wins:

Mikkel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins

'B' level wins:

Chris Eubank, Robin Reid, Jeff Lacy, Sakio Bika

'B-' level wins:

Richie Woodhall, Charles Brewer, Bryon Mitchell, Roy Jones Jr.




Point Total: 0 + 3 + 4 + 2 – 0 = 9

Sweet Pea
04-18-2009, 05:47 PM
I agree, Obama. Pretty much covered what I did in my prior post but in more detail.

AllTimeGreat
04-22-2009, 03:51 AM
I also have another question? Would beating Carl Froch, presuming he beats Jermain Taylor further add anything to Calzaghes legacy? And how monumental would that be. Considering it was only last year that HBO wanted to get Taylor a fight with Calzaghe.

Obama
04-22-2009, 04:36 AM
I also have another question? Would beating Carl Froch, presuming he beats Jermain Taylor further add anything to Calzaghes legacy? And how monumental would that be. Considering it was only last year that HBO wanted to get Taylor a fight with Calzaghe.

It'd add a little something, but not much at all. Froch is not good now, and he won't be considered much better if he beats Taylor. People will just consider Taylor a shot fighter.

bombfirst
04-24-2009, 02:25 PM
I also have another question? Would beating Carl Froch, presuming he beats Jermain Taylor further add anything to Calzaghes legacy? And how monumental would that be. Considering it was only last year that HBO wanted to get Taylor a fight with Calzaghe.

Less than beating Taylor regardless if Froch wins, people will say JT is on the downward slide after the 2 losses to Pavlik and I can't see Froch's resume ever being better..

AllTimeGreat
04-25-2009, 01:30 AM
Less than beating Taylor regardless if Froch wins, people will say JT is on the downward slide after the 2 losses to Pavlik and I can't see Froch's resume ever being better..

Definetely agree. Taylor is still highly skilled, but his endurance and resiliance definetely has decreased over the past 2 years.

Sweet Pea
04-25-2009, 09:31 PM
Definetely agree. Taylor is still highly skilled, but his endurance and resiliance definetely has decreased over the past 2 years.

He lacks the heart and motivation of a true champion. He said himself that he hasn't been motivated since beating Bernard Hopkins but apparently he's as motivated as ever.

Bad news for Froch PERHAPS.. a motivated Taylor will pick him apart but who knows with Taylor..